Religion vs Relationship

What does it mean to have a relationship with Christ? Can these two mesh? Are they supposed to be together or are they supposed to be separate? A lot of questions that we're dealing with today.

Welcome everybody to Quorum of the two with Ethan and Danny. Today we’re talking about religion versus relationship. What does being religious means? What does it mean to have a relationship with Christ? Can these two mesh? Are they supposed to be together or are they supposed to be separate? A lot of questions that we’re dealing with today so to get the conversation started uh first a thing we should address is what do we mean by religion uh so Danny if you wanted tackle that one well religion is an institution that’s man-made um really is we don’t find in scripture in the New Testament where a church was a formal brick and mortar church was established for believers to go to to be fed they met in small groups and homes and that’s the way that the gospel is supposed to be shared and taught and learned so but as you know the numbers grew people wanted more fellowship and then you get people who claim to have you know more knowledge and more experience education wise as well as the time went on in history who established religions um in brick and mortar buildings Cathedrals and um and they were the spokespeople the spokesman for the people they’re the ones that read the Bible and interpreted it for the the common people and so you know when we think back on religion it all started with with the idea I think of men controlling other people right and having them learn what they felt was important instead of instead of letting the Bible speak for itself right yeah I think the idea of Christianity is really scary because peop most people in this world want to follow they don’t want to lead they don’t want to be individuals they want to be a part of a group and have someone else tell them what they’re supposed to do and for a long time that’s how it was operated right that God instituted a high priest he had uh people who led the Sanhedrin uh and they were to tell the people what the law is what you’re supposed to do this is what God has decreed right now when Jesus comes and dies for our sins there is a church that needs to be set up so there is a Perfect Bride that needs to be set up in that day because of the persecution they were dealing with right uh so we have we have to look at the Bible when it talks about the church’s uh and and Leadership and whatnot we have to look at it in proper context I think there’s a beautiful story and you you might have this of when Jesus died there was an earthquake in Judea and that the veil of in the temple was split it ripped down and if you didn’t know that Veil separated where the people could go and where the presence of God was and so that was a symbol of the presence of God being available to everyone everyone can now go to God and make a sacrifice per se which Jesus is the perfect sacrifice but when I’m meaning is we can all go to God before then only only who could go into that holy of holies the high priest the high priest and once a year yeah right with the sacrifice right for the people right and so now we can all go to God right it’s an individual relationship there’s no man that sits between you and God it is you and God and I think often we fear that because God in in just in his attributes is fearful I mean he’s holy he’s in control of this whole universe I don’t want to talk to him you know like that that could be an intimidating thing so we create these institutions where okay someone else is telling me what to do this is what I got to do right and it makes us feel better where the gospel is some what more nuanced and where you have to talk to God you have to go in relationship to God to figure things out and how to operate in this world and it’s something that I think is is fearful it’s challenging it’s hard and people don’t want to do that yeah yeah it’s easier to let someone else do the work right right um but putting the Trust In the arm and flesh is always dangerous right we don’t know the motives behind the people that are you know that are running these churches until they show their hand and we’ve seen that recently in the LDS church um recently with their uh Securities and Exchange Commission investigation and the fines and penalties that were um given because of the mishandling of the funds that were donated to the church through all the faithful members who thought that money was going to feed the poor and help others and instead men in power and Leadership were setting up shell companies to hide the money so they didn’t have to declare it so um it didn’t look like they had as much money as they had so the members would say well we don’t need to keep paying tithing if the church is Rich right if we’ve got billions and billions of dollars well that’s just the LDS church and we we will pick on them sometimes because I come from that that background the show’s meant for yeah uh but we’ve seen it in Catholic Church we’ve seen it in other televised televangelists not not even that even you know efforts and yeah even when I was Pentecostal the same mentality was there you know oh yeah uh those ties into your Storehouse so that there will be a meat in my house or whatever the whatever whatever the verses that is taken completely out of context and you know every day we even never get a good sermon about anything else in the Bible except tithing every single Sunday wow they would give a whole story about you will uh God will give you a thousand times what uh you give right and and stuff like that it becomes kind of a Prosperity message right it is and it’s antithetical to the gospel it is sinful to say those types of things you know and it makes me so upset because we forget what it’s all about you’re supposed to give out of your heart not out of obligation you’re supposed to be a cheerful Giver as Paul says right so the the whole the whole tithing thing it and we’ll probably do a separate episode on that but uh I I wanted to find what I mean when I say religion right uh because honestly it can have many different terms some would just say if you believe in God you’re religious right which in case we would be religious in that right uh when you read uh James letter he says if you are going to be religious you help orphans you feed the poor right this also is something that we believe in but when we talk about religion we’re talking about a system a a specific church that says hey you got to do this this and this uh to go to heaven right I think when I think of religion I think of someone getting in between you and God and interfering in that relationship so whenever we talk about religion that’s what we’re specifically talking about just have ease of communication yeah yeah and you know I think there’s a lot of religions particularly in Christianity they have good intentions you know they really do feed their flock the word of God but if you go to a church and all you’re getting is entertained if you’re getting a band and you’re getting the fog machine and you’re getting you know a dialogue from the or a monologue from the pastor talking about his latest vacation or to home or whatever stand-up comedy routine yeah it’s kind of what it ends up being and people feel like oh this is fun to come and you know meet other people and uh believe in God but then they walk away with a little message maybe from the Bible and uh and they’re undernourished so week after week after week of going to that they just start to wonder is it really worth getting out of bed and coming here every Sunday morning to do this is it better that I just maybe go into the mountains or go on you know a walking with my dog um or they just give up entirely they give up entirely because what do you like you said at the beginning they’ve relied on other people to feed them uh they haven’t taken the time to feed themselves and God has given us the word of God here in our Bible to feed ourselves right it’s the whole the whole course meal is right there in front of us and uh for us to just digest and to take into our spiritual bodies and to Enlighten our minds and to feed our Spirits so it’s there for us we don’t need to rely on other people necessarily it’s always good to go meet other people and fellowship with them but God’s intention is to is to have the Holy Spirit be the person the the god the part of God that teaches us truth and we can get that from his word alone right right and so I I want to deal with the question of is church even necessary right and so we have to Define what church is because are we talking about going to a a big Evangelical worship group and you know dancing and having a good time with the fog machines and all that which is something I used to do and now I find so repudiating I I really I’d rather go into an LDS service then go to another one of those Evangelical camps it it is so it’s a whole it’s a whole nother rambling that I won’t get into right so so what is church necessary well whenever I think of church right I think of community we have to we have to think of communion with our brothers and sisters in the faith which I think is vastly important I think communion it it’s it’s not necessary but it is vital vitally important to grow uh in your relationship with God by learning from others by communicating with others of a like mind right uh which is why the church was so strong back in the first century because they had Community with each other um and it’s a it’s something important that we we should associate with each other as Believers but is it necessary to go to a church every Sunday no not at all yeah you know the word uh church was an angle-sized word made up in the 17th century from based on the word in the Greek the Ecclesia which when Jesus said upon this church I will Upon This Rock yeah Upon This Rock I’ll build my church it’s the first time the word church is mentioned in all of scripture but that ecclesium in the Greek means a gathering of Believers or a group of Believers and so um it’s the overall idea of of Believers there right not not necessarily a certain other than when Paul was going around spreading the gospel he was writing letters to the Ecclesia or the church in Corinth or galatia or wherever he was writing to right those those Believers were getting together to worship together and uh so yeah it’s church is important in many regards and can be a blessing a lot of people have their own little home study by our Bible studies and that’s Church yeah and that’s church that is the Gathering of the word and and you know again I I want to stress how important Community is because we’re not we’re not going to the social people we need yeah we need communion like you said yeah we we do need it because whenever life goes south right you you don’t necessarily want to call someone that’s not of the same like mind in Christ right because you’re supposed to put your full faith in Christ Christ isn’t number one in your life he is your life if you’re born again right uh so you want to be able to have people around you that can help you with that that have and that believe in the message that you believe in you know so that that’s why the community section is so important and whenever persecution comes back to the U.S or wherever you’re at it’s also important to have there to strength in each other and everything yeah I agree uh Ethan and I attend on Sunday not a church we go to a Bible study and we’ve found that after an hour a little more than an hour we receive more information about The Bible and are fed spiritually than as a Latter-Day Saint I ever got in all of the time that I went to sacrament meeting and gospel Doctrine class and all my meetings where I used to go and just just hunger and want and desire to be fed to to learn but it was so the curriculum that they had designed was to control the message so you couldn’t look outside of that unless you did it on your own there wasn’t any answer question and answering periods like we have here at our gathering so we’re really blessed to have that anybody wants to to check it out it’s what’s the full name of it the Christians for Ultra Libertarians for Christ for Truth For Truth okay you can’t mess up the Shadows oh man yeah anyway but yeah yeah we can post the link uh to the website in the address check it out yeah yeah uh if you if you just want to search cult not love that’s what it stands for we’re not a call except the cult of Freedom it’s a tongue-in-cheek yeah you’re well you’re welcome to come Bombay and and uh search the scriptures together because literally one one lesson here is more information I’ve ever gotten at any other Church my entire life uh and that’s a wonderful thing because I’ve left some Sundays with my brain hurting and I and just not knowing you know because there’s so much to unpack and me being excited for the next week you know to come in and find the answers and and to continue searching out this Grand story of the Bible um and this really this really gets us into what what the point of all of it was right because we know that Christ sacrifice for our sins he he was a perfect lamb and we are saved by grace through faith alone right uh by his sacrifice but there there’s also another Point here to what I mentioned earlier that Jesus set as free not only from our sins but something that’s associated with uh showing her since which is the law the law of Moses right because we were put in bondage by our knowledge of our sin right uh and so Jesus set us free of that as well and with Allah Moses goes out all of the works of righteousness that you have to do to make it to heaven right because you can’t we realize that we’re so broken we were so evil and reprobates in the eyes of God to where we cannot save ourselves right and neither can anyone which makes it you look at other people you realize you’re in the same position as me the pope is uh uh Prophet Nelson is not all of us are in the same boat right and that that is really what Jesus did he set us free and we’re all on the same bar and we can only do do good through Christ yeah yeah once we accept Christ into our life then he lives in US and uh and works with us to bless the lives of other people we’re being led by the Holy Spirit to do those kinds of things which I found it to be very liberating um to rely on that and not uh as a mandate from a church to do certain things to um to receive blessings for but to let this Holy Spirit just to guide me to allow me to spend my money the way and bless other people the way I I think he wants me to bless them right that kind of a thing yeah and don’t you think that if you if you had a limited amount of money to spend and you can say okay I can either go give it to the church or I can donate it to this organization that’s helping people directly with what I care about right yeah uh either or works you know I I just don’t think that we should be limited in how we give our money just because the the church quote unquote needs it you know um and so so just realize that Jesus set you free and he gave the Holy Spirit for a reason as to be a guider as we read the scriptures as we walk through life you know you don’t need another person to tell you that it’s important to have other people to discuss that with and to be wise but you don’t need another person to enforce those laws on you because you have a relationship with God and if you’re truly of God he will discipline you he will grow you he will help you become Sanctified in the faith amen well that’s all I got that’s all I got two yeah we will see you here uh next week uh be sure to check out talking to or dot ah I see yeah well we’ll remember that for next time like subscribe uh to this show hopefully by now if we’re getting some views this is episode what is it for something like that I don’t know I’ve lost track yeah yeah episode four so share it with your Mormon friends share it with your Christian friends so we can all grow together in communion with Christ we’ll see you here next time God bless

Follow Us


QOTT Podcast

Listen on Google Play Music